Ep 94 - Mastering Tough Conversation in HR and Business with Jill Shroyer

Jill Shroyer is the CEO and Lead HR Consultant at Expedition HR and is a tough conversations expert. Businesses hire Expedition HR to provide on-demand, on-call expert HR and tough conversation support and guidance through the HR Subscription and HR Jumpstart trainings. It’s like having an HR Director on-call! Most clients find Expedition HR because they need help letting an employee go or because they need to solve an ongoing work performance problem. She has over two decades of HR experience across five industries and is a published author of the book, Conquer Sticky Situations. Jill lives in Park City, Utah with her husband, two kids, and rescue pets. Jill has many passions outside of work including mountain biking, skiing deep powder, and traveling abroad with her family.

Free Gift: https://www.expeditionhr.com/10-ways

Connect at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-shroyer-phr-32657411/

https://www.expeditionhr.com/

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Darlene Hawley is a speaker, podcast host, business coach, and communication expert who shows ambitious, heart-centered entrepreneurs and rising business leaders how to speak up, stand out, and make more impact.

Grab my 10 Do's and Don't for Effective Daring Conversations: https://mailchi.mp/297e8105e904/communicationguide

Grab my 6 Steps To Attract & Stand Out digital guide, a free roadmap to create a successful business with less hustle and more ease: https://bit.ly/attractandstandoutonline

Grab a Chai and let's Connect:

https://darlenehawley.com

https://linkedin.com/in/darlenehawley

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Quotes:

You can always make money. You can't always make memories,  do the stuff. -Jill Shroyer

The biggest myth about communication is that it's actually taken place. - Jill Shroyer

I always say, if I say yes to this, what am I saying no to for myself? - Darlene Hawley

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Tune in to our latest podcast episode as we delve into the transformative power of values-driven leadership and effective communication! From navigating the hiring process to fostering a culture of authenticity and alignment, my conversation with Jill Shroyer sheds light on the pivotal role of values in shaping organizational success. Don't miss out on this insightful discussion – click the link to listen now!

• Importance of values in hiring: Identifying and prioritizing non-negotiable traits and values in candidates to ensure alignment with organizational culture.
• Building a values-driven culture: Implementing training programs and initiatives to instill company values from day one, fostering authenticity and alignment among team members.
• Recognizing red flags: Learning to spot early signs of misalignment in values during the hiring process and how to address them effectively.
• Personal growth and entrepreneurship: Insights into the challenges and lessons learned in transitioning from an organizational role to becoming a CEO and founder, offering valuable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
• Learning to say no: Embracing the power of setting boundaries and saying no when necessary, without feeling the need to justify oneself.
• Recognizing personal growth: Reflecting on the journey of personal development and the importance of adapting to new perspectives and priorities.
• Overcoming comparison: Navigating the temptation to compare oneself to others' achievements and staying focused on individual progress and goals.
• Practicing active listening: Utilizing active listening techniques, such as pausing and repeating back, to enhance communication and understanding in both personal and professional relationships.
• Embracing silence: Understanding the value of pausing and allowing silence in conversations to promote reflection and deeper understanding, both for oneself and others.

#ValuesDrivenLeadership #EffectiveCommunication

Transcript:

Welcome back everybody to another episode of the attract and stand out podcast. I am your host, Darlene, I am sitting here with one of my best new friends who I've had the chance to connect with a lot over the past, say, I'd say like three to four months. Jill Shroyer, welcome to the show.

I'm so excited to have you on here. 

Thank you so much for the invitation. 

Yeah, it's so great to have you here. I work with a lot of entrepreneurs who are growing their businesses and scaling to the next level and having somebody that knows HR and people. and how to create amazing relationships is so important when we're growing our businesses.

I know that you do a lot of this. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and how you work with your clients? 

Absolutely. So thanks so much again, Jill Shroyer and my company is Expedition HR. And I always say the company was born because I want to protect small businesses from all the HR nightmares that could happen.

So I come from About two decades in the workforce, working in all levels of HR roles and found, it took me a while to really kind of have the light bulb moment of, I'm really good at tough conversations. And so Expedition to HR was born six years ago, and really we exist to help those small businesses with hard conversations.

And I like to say with all the other HR stuff too, but really that's what we do most of the day is help with hard conversations. And personally, I live in Park City, Utah, love to mountain bike and ski and just enjoy our 364 days of sun here. And just love working. I'm really passionate about small business and kind of helping them learn what they need to know about HR. 

That's so, so wonderful, and I love that you shared some of those personal pieces of the activities you like to do and how you like to spend your time. I'm curious, like, take us back a little bit. How did you get into, like, HR and supporting people in that, in that way? What was it that really called you in into that industry? 

Yeah, so I have kind of an interesting story. So I didn't study human resources in college. I actually was a Spanish major. I speak fluent Spanish as well. So kind of a fun fact. And really after college, you know, I, I had a great experience and it was It was awesome, but I didn't know what I wanted to do.

And so I grew up in New England and went to college there and just wanted something new. So that's how I found my way to Utah actually for the Olympics back in 2002. And so it was really fun to arrive and check those out. And I just kind of got a job randomly at one of the ski resorts in human resources and thought, okay, this is kind of cool.

I get to work with people coming in from other countries. To work and fill out paperwork and it was really fun. And so that so actually in 2001 was when I got my first HR job again, not really knowing much of anything and kind of fast forward through the years. I just really enjoyed it and kept looking for opportunities. 

And eventually, I'll never forget, it was 2007, I got a fantastic opportunity to be an HR manager, when I really didn't have that experience, and I had this wonderful mentor and he said, you know, I believe in you, you've got the skills I want, you can learn the HR, and so I put in the time, took the courses, and from there, it just really took off, and I'm so proud of it.

Just found, I not only enjoyed it, but I was really good at it. And again, I really leaned into that tough conversation space through the years. And really, really towards the end of those about 17 years in the workforce, working in HR kind of had a moment where someone approached me and asked me if I could consult for them on a, a sticky situation in their nonprofit business, actually.

And nonprofit organization. And I said, sure. I mean, I. I don't really do consulting, but sure. And the next day I quit my job and said, I'm going to be an HR consultant. And I have not looked back since because there's so many businesses that need this support. And frankly, a lot of in house HR support just is not cutting it.

It's very, Administrative based and there's not a lot of assistance for these small businesses to help with, like, the real things that come up the performance issues, the people that need to move on and what to say to them. This 1, I helped with was like a 14 year employee that they said has been here, you know, 13 years too long help us.

And so that was kind of where it all began. And Darlene, I think I'm not even sure I, you know, I'm still on the question. 

You are doing fabulous. I actually want to come back to something that you said and that was Like you had a leader who noticed how you communicate and how you support people and how you show up and they didn't even care that you didn't have the, the know how yet of how to get to do the position that they were having you fill those shoes for.

And I think that's such an important piece because I think so often we hire because somebody has a. You know, a college certificate and they have, they've been in the industry for a long time and, and we think that that's what we actually want, but I'm a big fan of like the person themselves. Like what's their values?

What's the culture? How do they show up as a human being? What are they bringing to the table? Cause so many of the job skills that we learn, what, no matter what industry we're in, we can learn those things. Like most of us are very capable of learning the ins and outs of the industry itself, but you can't teach somebody.

I mean, you can, but it takes a really long time and it's oftentimes you can't change somebody like those core values and like the things that are really important to them, like you, those are such great assets to bring into an organization. And I'm curious since that was kind of your story, is that something that you work a lot with your clients on and making sure that you get like, What's the saying go like to put the right person in the right position on the bus, like to make sure people in the right place.

I guess I'm curious how that impacts the work that you do in HR now. 

Yeah, thanks for asking that. So while we don't identify as a recruiting agency or a headhunter, we do help clients with kind of all the things they really need to know to recruit more effectively. And yeah, actually, I have a couple things I talked to clients about when they're looking for someone.

The first is, and I didn't invent this term. I don't even know where I heard it. It was years ago. And it was about kind of looking at this position and saying, what are the kind of Excel traits? What does this person have to come in with? That are non negotiables. And just like you said, Darlene, a lot of these things aren't actually the actual skills of the job.

You know, to make a really generic example, like, if you have a front desk or a greeter, like you said, you can't teach someone to be warm. I mean, a cold kind of standoffish person That's shoving a square peg in a round hole or whatever they say. That is never going to happen. So in Excel trade is they've got to be warm.

They've got to have great, you know, people skills. So we talk about that and I even drill it down further to say, okay, and if you could only have one of those things in this person, what is that one thing? So when we're interviewing and we're looking at people, if someone doesn't fit that main key thing, They're immediately disqualified because it happens all the time where they convince themselves that no, it's the right person.

They're so good. They have the experience. They live here. They this, that, or the other thing, and they've forgotten about that one, you know, Excel trait or the two non negotiables that this person needs because they're so good at all these other things. And they hire them. And I always say it's the wrong person, right seat.

Like, they can do the job, but it's not the right person. And Darlene, I love that you mentioned values, because that's where I always say we start with candidates. Like, I ask companies, what are your values? Because for me to effectively work with you, I need to know what you stand for. And please talk about this with candidates.

And find that out first. I like the term, the right person, right seat is a values fit and a skills fit. And a wrong person, right seat is going to leave you or you're going to have to fire them almost all the time. They're going to be just off and you just don't know why. You can't put your finger on it.

And I'll tell you, it's because they're not the values fit. So yeah, that's, that's in a lot of clients say like, I've never really looked at it that way. They're so into the skills and they forget about, us. How does this person have to be, you know, what do they have to stand for to be a fit? 

Yeah, values are something that I would say I've really been taking notice of.

I'd say for probably that past like seven, eight, nine years now, it's like something that is, I didn't realize how important it was when it came to the work that I'm doing. And it also brings in, I call them red flags, whether it's working with my entrepreneur clients and their, whether they're hiring somebody to work inside their business.

But even if they're just looking at getting clients and the type of people they want to work for, like we need to be able to take a stand and share a little bit about our values and who we are and what we believe in. You don't have to get up on, I do say like get up on your soapbox a little bit and share some of those things because you're going to attract the right people to you, but you're also going to repel the people that aren't going to be a great fit for you during that process.

And it's funny how so often we're afraid to share some of those pieces, but once I get my clients to start speaking about it and just sharing, you know, their story and the things that are important to them, how they really start to notice, like the red flags start to go away, or they can notice them early.

And they can say, this isn't going to be a good fit. I'm going to have to refer you out to somebody else. Or, you know, you're actually not going to be the right fit for my company. I'm going to keep interviewing until I find the right person. That's going to be able to come in. And I think those, those red flags, the longer we're in business, the easier it is for us to notice them.

Cause we all learn. I've, I always learn lessons the hard way. My mother always would say that I'm, I was stubborn and I would have to learn it my way. Even if she could tell me, What the right way, right thing I should do in that moment. Like I wanted to, you know, go out there and experiment and see how things are going.

And so I think it's important as entrepreneurs and leaders, like we experiment a little bit and we start to notice like, Ooh, these are the things I really connect with and how I want to run my business or, you know, take, take my career in this direction. And so when we notice those pieces, it just makes us show up so much more. 

In tune with who we really are. 

Totally. I find I just, I'm folding them into so many more conversations with, you know, just even my business, every time I make a decision, I've got something on my bulletin board that's like, is this aligned with your values and is this aligned where you want to go? And sometimes you look up, you're like, no, it's not, but I really wanna do it.

And it's, every time you do it, you, you always have that moment of like, okay, good lesson learned. 

Yeah, absolutely. I've been doing some work with a client for about a year now. And one of the things that they were not talking about was values and culture. And that's pieces like it just wasn't something they were in the break room on the wall.

And they talked about it during orientation. But that was really as far as it was going. And we built a training program for one of their divisions inside the company. And we really instilled those pieces in the very first couple of days of training to make sure that they were embodying it. And we've been piloting it over the past couple of months.

And you can see a shift from the facilitators that have been trained this new way, all the way through the new hires on how they're showing up and how it's impacting the bigger vision of the company. And it's, you know, we're starting with brand new hires. We almost have to go back now. And Really retrain all the employees that have been there for a while, because it just wasn't part of that culture and we're slowly weaving it in to the process.

And it's been beautiful to watch. 

That's so neat. 

So I'm curious, since you decided to like take that leap and start your own consulting business, what have been some of the biggest challenges or struggles for you going from working inside of an organization with somebody else to really taking on that leadership role?

As CEO founder yourself, what have been some things that you've learned and lessons that might help other entrepreneurs as they're starting their journey into starting a business? 

Yeah, I love that question. You know, I call, I, it's funny, I'll give a quick story about like mountain biking. So someone that I met when I first moved out here, you know, I'd go biking with her and she would just ride over things.

And I was like, how do you do that? And she said, Jill, it's mileage. I've been biking for 20 years. And I had just kind of started mountain biking. And I was like, Oh, and I'll never forget her. So I can picture where we were. And so I look at it with business is like mileage, you know, some people start a business and I'm, I'm not saying I'm like the ultimate of business owner, but some people look at me and they're like, wow, you know, I want to do that. 

And I said, I've been in business six years. I mean, you, you've been in business so much longer, even than I have. And I said, you know, that expression, they say like every overnight success took six years. And I look back is like, I. So many things, if I had just done that differently, I would have been here sooner, and I, but I think it's like that mileage term is, I, it's like a rite of passage.

You have to do the thing and mess up and run too fast and have something, you know, not ideal happen or work so hard on something and get underpaid for it to, to learn the lessons, like you said, you know, fail forward or however they say. So, yeah. I just, I've, I've always been a person that likes to try things and I, it takes a while for me to get discouraged.

And so I think that's one of the biggest things is don't overthink it, you know, think through it, but try it and then know quickly if it's not going to work. And I've had many of those before I kind of landed with this HR subscription that That's kind of the main way I support clients with that on demand support is I had to do everything for everyone and just work when they needed me to.

And yeah, I think that was the biggest thing is try things and quickly drop them if they don't work. But, but think through them enough. 

Yeah. And so often, especially when we're starting a business, it's, it's the old saying of like throwing spaghetti against the wall and like, is it ready? How do we know exactly what type of work we want to do?

Because there's part of it. It's like, what do our ideal clients want? And then what type of work lights us up and excites us to show up every day? Cause it's not only just about the clients, like we need to make sure we're fulfilled. Like we're starting businesses because a lot of times, and not every entrepreneur relates a hundred percent to this, but a lot of it's like, we want the freedom and flexibility to create a business and a life that we love.

And I think that's so important. Like for me, it was flexibility and freedom in my schedule. That was like, I was used to what I needed. You know, I was a single mom back when I started my business. I wanted to be home with my kids. And I also wanted to be able to have, you know, provide nicely for my family.

And I want to do something that was going to make an impact in the world. I wanted to help other people. You know, we only, we only have one life we want to. Yeah. And so many people that I, cause I did HR training and development in my prior career as well. And so many people that I was working with didn't love the work they were doing.

It was just a paycheck. I was like, how do we show up and make an impact and do work that we love? That's going to, you know, leave a legacy at some point on our lives. We don't want to work just to work like, yeah, we, we all need money. That's kind of a given in this society, the way that our world's words been world's been built.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, how do we do it in a way that really aligns with who we are and allows us to show off those gifts? So, and like, Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. I was gonna say, 

like, you and I were chatting about before we started is like, gut feel, you know, I always say, like, to my clients, we can't ignore the gut feel, we have to look at facts as well.

But I think that's something maybe to add to is just like, you know, I joke that I'm not in the business of convincing. I'm not going to convince a client that they need HR. And if they don't know that it's important and they need it, so it's almost like in your business, convincing yourself like, Oh, that's my ideal client, but maybe I should expand.

And you convince yourself or the influencer online and you say, Oh, but they look so good. I want to do what they're doing. And I always say, like, be careful convincing yourself that you want something else that's not. aligned with your values as well. Like, listen, if something feels, whether it's a little stomach ache or the little voice that's like, are you sure, listen to that.

Because same thing, I built the business off of, you know, flexibility and said, I want to work this much and this is how, you know, I want to show up for my family and everything else had to fit into that container. And if it didn't, It had to be a no, even though it might've been a high price tag, no.

And that, that was always one of the hardest things for me when I start one, when I really realized that this is the direction I need to go is like, there's so much more than the price you get paid for something, the value of, you know, I say at what cost and has nothing to do with dollars, like at what cost in your happiness, your life.

One of my favorite, my, my community probably has heard me say this a million times, but. I always say, if I say yes to this, what am I saying? No to for myself and that I heard that question. I'm not sure exactly what amazing book I read it out of or who said it at what point, but I remember like that gut check of like, Ooh, like I'm saying it.

Cause I'm, I'm a P I'm by nature, a people pleaser. I want to make everybody else happy. And oftentimes that came at my own expense. And I've, I really worked on this and I feel like I'm in a great place now. And, but I can see, I can still see at different points, like it can creep up very easily back into my life.

And I, I know I love to help other people. So it's like, I, I want to make sure though, that I'm doing it not at the expense of my goals and my vision and my dreams, but it's adding to what I'm trying to accomplish, you know, in this short life that I have. And so asking myself often, if I say yes to this, what am I saying no to for my goals?

And sometimes I'm like, I'm going to do it. Like this feels great. It's off of my, what I thought I was going to do, but it feels really good. And then other times I'm like, Ooh, you know what? I can't volunteer and do this thing, or I'm not able to come and support at this place or whatever it is. And then I can say no and no is a complete sentence.

I don't even have to explain myself to those people. But I, but I make that choice, not old Darlene who was like, Oh, I will help everybody and be so fried and exhausted that I forget what I'm even trying to work on and like what I want to do. 

Yes. Oh, so many good things in there. 

You said something earlier that sticks out to me, especially as entrepreneurs, like we don't want to compare ourselves to like other people's, like, I call it chapters in life, right?

Like I might be on chapter 10, somebody else might be on chapter one and we think overnight successes, or we see, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs or influencers who are doing really big things really quickly. And we want to emulate. What we're seeing them do. I'm curious, how have you seen that show up in your life and how do you kind of maneuver if you see somebody, I call it like the shiny object syndrome, like we see somebody else out there, maybe it's marketing or they're another HR, you know, Not competition, because there's no such thing as competition.

But somebody else who's doing similar work to you is doing something. How do you really keep yourself in alignment with your goals without wanting to like, get distracted by all the shiny things that you see other people out there doing? 

Yeah, you know, I, I think the best way for me is to sit back and say, what is story and what is fact?

You know, that what they're sharing might not all be true. And I usually bring it back. I like to say like, It, it stress will stress me out to like, think about or try and like project onto like what their successes have been or what. Instead, it's easier to look and say, well, let me think about the facts for what's going on with me.

You know, this is the, these are the successes I had. This is what's going on now. That's going great and if I look at all the facts that support, I'm on the right track. That really helps me. Going back to stories, I'm really good at creating stories that aren't, that aren't true. I think at some point we all are.

It's like, whoa, where did, you know, someone doesn't call you back. And it's like, oh, they, they didn't think that I knew what I was talking about. And it's like, that's not it at all. The facts are that they're busy and that happens every time, you know, three days later, they'll call and say, I'm so excited to start working.

And so I think the stories are really dangerous. So for me, it's let's separate the facts from the stories. 

Yeah, absolutely. And that, and that piece, like we can, we can all tell ourselves really good stories and it does not, I know for, I'll speak for myself, usually the story that I've created in my head that I think is the outcome is crazy wild compared to what actually is going to happen in that moment.

And so I've had to really learn, like I have a very good vivid imagination apparently, because usually what I think is going to happen versus what actually happens is usually, you know, a pretty big gap. And so I've had to learn how to. Reign in those stories because I don't know, our inner critic and our comparison and, you know, the things that our mind, our mind can take us on a whole adventure without even leaving our house, right? 

I know they always say like, it's like, don't, you know, when you want to practice gratitude and don't think like, wow, there's so many people that don't have what I have instead, though, I like to think instead, just Think back to gratitude and say, yeah, but there's probably a lot of, if I put everything I'm doing out there, there'd be a lot of people also that admire what I do.

So, why am I, you know, glorifying someone else when someone else probably looks up to you or I, you know, by something we said or a meeting. And so, it's, it's easy for me, I know, to say, oh, everyone must look up to that person when we forget, like, what are our accomplishments? And, you know, if people looking up to me, hopefully it's for, you know, the right reasons.

Yeah, so. Absolutely. 

One of the things that I want to like, as we start to kind of wrap up, I have one kind of one more glass question before we head to rapid fire. When you think about communication, because I know like in HR, as whether we're entrepreneurs or we're leaders inside of organization, we're working with lots of people every single day.

And communication is one of the things No matter where we are in life, right? Whether it's with our, our partners, our kids, our coworkers, our colleagues, our clients, we're getting in front of a big group to lead a presentation. Like how we communicate is really powerful. And I'm just curious, like what is, what's some of like.

your favorite tips when it comes to communicating with your team to really get them on board that you found over the years that really helps support your clients and yourself even. 

Yeah, I think you know, just refreshing on what listening really is. And, you know, what I what I teach is I have a be a marvelous manager training.

I teach for one of the leadership trainings and I talk about how we all might think we're listening. But if you're forming any thoughts when they're talking, that's really not fully listening. And so I teach like a quick 2 second pause at the end of what someone else says. To be able, then be able, then that's when you form your thoughts about what you're going to say.

And if you're really focusing on what the other person has said, that can really just help with them. You know, literally seeing that you're processing and then talking also repeating back and keeping a super calm tone are two of my other favorite communication pieces is not like parroting because I've heard it Said that way.

I'm like, no, no, you're like mirroring. You want to use their words, but you don't want it to be like, oh, you said and just say the exact same thing because they're like, you're just parroting back what I said but keeping that really even tone and kind of saying, you know, I'm hearing this and then Asking, am I getting this right?

Even though if I know, like I'm a good listener, I take notes, I still ask, did I get that right? Did I miss anything? And sometimes they'll say, oh, I want to add this or that. But that's a favorite quote I have about communication. It says the biggest myth about communication is that it's actually taken place. 

And that's usually I talk about, I'm a big, I'm a big fan of over communicating and not like in a micromanaging way, but like asking questions like, Hey, explain that. But I know that I see it this way. And I know it's new to you. Do you have any other questions? You know, would you be willing to share if anything doesn't make sense?

Just a lot of questions and pausing those two. I know those are some of my most powerful. Communication tools. 

Those are great. And I love the first one that you mentioned about, like, really listening to what people are saying. Cause as we were talking right now, I actually had it, like, I, I formed a question during a couple of questions back and I was trying to hold onto it so tightly because I wanted to ask it, but I didn't want to forget what the question was that I was like, but you're not hearing what she's saying right now, Darlene.

So I like dropped that question and just like, let myself like sit back for a second. And it's so true. Like we, I, I'm very guilty of this. Like, I'm like, Ooh, I want to rebolt, rebuttal against this. Or I have the perfect thing. I got to say this like statement based off of what you said, but you, you know, most of the time when you're in a conversation, like somebody might keep going for two to 10 minutes saying whatever their piece is.

And you don't even hear the last eight minutes of it because you're still trying to like rebuttal against that first response or the first thing that they said that you're like, Oh, I have to respond in this place. But when we settle back in. We actually have, like, give the gift of listening to other people can be one of the most powerful tools, especially as a leader, because we want to feel seen, heard, and valued when we're, you know, sharing our thoughts and our feelings and what's coming up in that moment.

And if we don't actually hear them, how are we going to actually support them? 

A hundred percent. Yeah. I know everyone's probably like. Ultra, you're ultra, like, conscious of it when someone talks about active listening skills. It's like, gosh, you know, we all probably, I know I can do better. I mean, on a daily basis, I know I can do better with, you know, not forming that question in my head.

It always feels so good. I know when Transcribed by https: otter. ai I've started doing a lot more pausing when I've talked and some people push back and say, it's so uncomfortable. And I said, that's okay. It shows like confidence when you pause. I think it just exudes confidence. Like, even if you're interviewing someone in your small business and they stop and say, let me think about that and they just sit.

I'm like, they're really confident. Like, they are comfortable in their skin. And so just. The pause, I think, can be incredibly valuable. 

And on the flip side of that, when we pause as the person who's speaking, it actually gives a chance for the person who's listening to, like, actually think about what was just said, and it gives them a chance to, like, form their thoughts, and it actually supports them as well.

I know that's one of the things that we talk a lot about when we're, when I'm speaking at a training or if I'm speaking at, you know, doing a keynote or a presentation. Like, sometimes it's for my benefit because I forgot where I want to go next, and I just need to, like, take a second, and that's okay. But it actually, like, it supports the people that are listening so much in that moment as well.

Like, we, especially, I'm a quick talker. When I get up on stage, like, my sensations are, you know, moving or shaking in my body. And I'm, I start talking fast. I have to slow myself down. But I also have to remember, too, like, when I pause, I just gave so much to, like, such a get to the people that were listening.

Because they can actually catch up on their thoughts and really form their own thoughts. And, you know, oh, how do I feel about this? Or, ooh, that was a great point. Like, how do I want to use this in my life or when I show up at work, what's that going to look like? 

I love that you call the pause a gift. I love that so much.

Well, it's funny. You and I've talked to clients before. Sometimes I even say, okay, I've thrown a lot at you. I'm going to take a quick pause. Feel free to just think about what I shared. And then I just sit kind of like that. And Yeah, I think, I love that. It is totally a gift because not many people do it.

So many people, it's just, even like in a consult, like you go to get a service and someone's just like, throws so much information at you. And at the end, you're like, I don't even know what to ask. 

It's one of those, it's one of those gifts that we don't even know we need, right? And when we're the person doing the PAUSE. 

It might feel uncomfortable. I could tell this to my clients all the time. Like it's okay to, to pause and take a second to form your thoughts. And for you sometimes, especially I know this for a fact when I'm on stage, it sometimes could feel like, Oh my God, that was like, am I being quiet long enough? Or have I like for them it feels appropriate for sometimes for us for like how long it's too long like should I just should I keep pausing for a second or do I go back into it but knowing that you know count count to five if you think it's time to come back and like start your next sentence like count to five even then before you go back and talk and your people will take so much away.

Because you're actually giving them that gift of like reflection in that moment. 

When hard conversations, this comes up a lot where, you know, we, you ask someone kind of like, Hey, you know, tell me your thoughts on this. And they share. And if you can wait to respond instead of saying, Oh yeah, let me share some advice.

Or if you can wait, they 90 percent of the time, they'll keep talking. And I always kind of joke that sometimes, like, if you're in a conversation where you're trying to get something out of someone, if you pause, sometimes they share that thing, and you don't even have to ask. You don't have to coax it out.

They kind of share it, and they realize That's what they really needed to, like, admit or say. It's, it's incredibly powerful. 

Yes, I love, I love, love, love that one. I use, I use that technique very often as a coach because I want my clients to, you know, not feel like they need to come to me for answers even sometimes, like, when, when my clients ask a question.

Oftentimes they know the answer within them. Like sometimes they do need some support and guidance, but we know that we know what we want to say and how, like, what we need to do, but sometimes we just don't trust ourself enough. And so I will even do that. Like my, my one to one clients have access to me by boxer, which is an app that they can like walkie talkie back and forth and I don't respond and they know this, I don't, I rarely will respond.

Pretty quickly, like I will not and sometimes I might hear it and I'll still wait at the times. I just haven't got to the message yet. I haven't had a chance to check it, but rarely do I respond right away, not because I don't want to, like, jump in and support them, but because I want them to trust themselves.

I want them to be like, they'll come back sometimes two hours later and have an I'll have another message after the first one. Here's what I'm thinking. Here's where I think I should go with it. And you know, they still want to hear like my thoughts and opinion on it, but they've had a chance to verbally process it to me by saying it out loud.

They've then taken a second to really listen to what they've said and, you know, figure out what they might want to do, what their gut reaction is in that moment. And then they're like, okay, here's where I'm kind of going now. Like, what do you think about this? Like, here's what I think I should do. And then we can continue the conversation.

But it's one of those sneaky coachy techniques that I feel like Not all coaches use, like, I don't like somebody told me once or like, you're teaching me how to think without you, darling. Like, are you sure you want to work yourself out of a job? And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, I'm not going to be your coach forever.

Like at some point you're going to need, you know, you'll have all the tools and resources that you'll need and you'll feel really confident going out there. And that's what I want. Like you might choose to work with another coach. You might work with me. Like some of my clients work with me for years and years on end, which I love, but I also want them to trust their own voice.

In those moments, and so I think that's, that's powerful when we can give that to somebody else. 

That's so good, such a good reminder, because I love, like, you know, we do Voxer as well, and I love responding, but I always, even with myself, like, if we think through something, and we make a decision, and we step away for a minute, oftentimes, you know, whether we sleep on it, we come up with, oh, there's a third option that I never even thought of, just time, just a pause.

Yeah, I love that you said sleeping on it because I recently, probably a couple of years ago now I did some research on like human design and part of the things that I realized about my human design is I, I should not respond immediately. Like I need to take a little bit of time to think about how I actually feel about a situation.

And so now I sleep on it. So if you were to come in and say, Hey Darlene, I need whatever, like whatever you asked, like for the most part. I will say that sounds great. Let me think about it. Let me sleep on it tonight and I'll get back to you tomorrow. Just so I can give myself a chance to go. Yeah, I really want to do this.

This sounds great. Or no, not going to work. It's not, you know, it doesn't feel like the right direction to take my business or it's not the right collaboration or it's not the right client, like whatever that is, like, I want to have a chance to just really make sure it. Sits well with me. And so like sleeping on it, or even sometimes just going for a walk, especially if I'm making a decision for myself and I'm like, Oh, I need to make a choice.

I'll just grab the dog and the leash and go for a walk around the block with no podcast, nobody else with me, just, you know, my own quiet space. So I can really think and really decide how I want to move forward. So I love that you mentioned those ones. 

Yeah. 

Well, we are coming to a wrap, but before we really wrap up, I have a couple questions for you.

If I was to give you a plane ticket to anywhere in the world today, where would you travel to and why? 

Oh, gosh. 

I'm going 

to use that. Where are we going? That pause. Where are we going? Yeah. Gosh. Today I might go to, let's see. Maybe this isn't so rapid fire. You're like, Jill, this is really slow. I'm going to say Spain.

I'm actually Spain. Definitely. That's where I lived in college. And my Spanish Senora lives there. And I went back to see her 5 years ago now. So, it was 20 years after I lived with her. And I was actually thinking the other day how, you know, so she was 66 when I lived with her and she was like 86 when I saw her.

And so now she's in her 90s and she's, you know, they walk everywhere. But if I could just pop over and have dinner with her tonight, I would. 

That would be lovely. I wish I could just give you that ticket right this minute and I could come with you because I can't imagine how much wealth of knowledge you would be. 

I love that. Self care is so important. What is one or two things that you like to do to rejuvenate, refill, recharge, and fill your cup when you're just feeling like a little bit of that stress and overwhelm start to creep up? 

Yeah, for me, it's exercise. I'm so grateful that it's, it's a part of my day in my life without like any effort.

Like, it's the first thing that goes into my day. Like I mentioned, I love mountain biking. I don't book any meetings in the mornings in the winter because I love powder skiing. And so it's in or a hike. Like a kind of strenuous uphill hike with the dog. Those are my, those are definitely my go tos.

It's like a win win win, you know, you get exercise, you de stress and I love meditating and just sitting quietly. That's something I've been practicing and sometimes it's with something in my ear and sometimes it's I set a timer for 15 minutes, and I just say, just sit. 

So good. Yeah. I can only imagine the views that you get to get out into nature with out up in Utah. 

You've got to be bored. So pretty. One of these days, I'm going to get up there. Yes! We spent a lot of time in, at the bottom of Utah growing up as a kid, when you went to Zion. And so I've experienced that part, but I've never been to Northern Utah. So one of these days I'm going to get up that way. 

Great.

Well, look me 

up for sure. Well, leaving an impact or having an impact and leaving a legacy or something that I hear a lot of entrepreneurs specifically like want, like we want, we want to be able to give a piece of that back. What's something that you want to have as part of your footprint? 

Yeah. I want to be that person that and it's for me, it doesn't have to be, You know, thousands of people, like a few people at the kind of end of my life that say, Jill, like, changed the way I looked at things, whether it be for tough conversations personally or professional, professionally Like, like a mentor in their life.

Like, I can name, you know, really one key one in my life who I talk about him, you know, all the time when people say, who are your mentors? So if someone said Jill was my mentor, she was someone who really changed the way I think. That's it. That's my work is done. And my, my kids saying, I want to be like mom, I want to do what she did.

And, you know, 

So good. Gave me goosebumps. And my last question for you, what is your top value? And why is that your top value or one of your tops? It doesn't have to be the top. 

Yeah. So I'd say my top value is making memories with my family. And under that folds in, you know, the time freedom of my business and everything.

But making memories to me is just. I mean, at the end of your life, you know, I, my uncle told me this once when I was like 18. He said, Jill, you can always make money. You can't always make memories, like do the stuff. And I always think of him when, you know, I mean, obviously we need to make money in our business and, and kind of do what we set out to do.

But at the end of the day, a good day is one where I've had quality time with those I love and have seen some beautiful scenery. That is worth billions to me. So. 

Absolutely. Jill, thank you so much for being on the show. I've absolutely adored this conversation and wish we could keep talking, but we're going to stop here.

Thank you. Before we wrap up, I know people are going to say like, I need to connect with Jill some more. I need to hear more about her amazing business and the thing, the work that she's doing out there. Where should they go to find you? What's the best Avenue? 

Yeah. So I, I hang out on LinkedIn. That's really the only place I am.

I really enjoy it there. I kind of nerd out on LinkedIn. So just Jill Schroyer. Pretty easy to find me. It's S H R O Y E R if anyone is interested in looking. And my website expeditionhr. com. Of course, there's a way to reach out and connect there. And I'll just share. I wrote a book on tough conversations.

So that's a great way to kind of I wrote it in such a way that It speaks how I speak. And so I've had a lot of people say in their feedback that it feels like I'm talking to you, Jill. So that's a great way to connect as well. Or if someone says, oh, I just want to learn all these techniques for tough conversations, it's called Conquer Sticky Situations and it can be found on Amazon.

Awesome. And we will make sure, or we'll make sure all those links are down below in the show notes or on the YouTube channel as well. Awesome. I know you want me to 

mention the resource. Sorry. 

Yeah. Tell us about, I know you have a free gift for everybody today. Can you tell them what that is and why they need to download it right now? 

Yeah, it's called 10 Ways to Prevent Sticky Situations in Small Business, and what I outline in this resource is 10 specific and actionable ways that if you have a small business, you can kind of go through this checklist to just avoid some potentially big, you know, liabilities and risks, you know, I like the disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer, if you do these 10 things, or even one or two of them Transcribed by https: otter.

ai I can guarantee things will be smoother in your business. So I hope you pick it up and get some value. 

Absolutely. Go download Jill's amazing free resource. I know how valuable most of these free resources that from like the guests that I have on my show, I usually go download them myself just to see, kind of check it out, and I'm always like, So blown away by like the generosity of the gift and what so much value can come from something that, you know, technically we're just giving you our email address for so get out there. 

Connect with Jill go go stalk her down. We don't want to stalk Jill, but go hunt her down. Share one of the takeaways from something she shared or maybe even that I shared on the episode today. I'm sure there was so many little golden nuggets I know I took from it. Thank you everybody for joining us another episode of the attract and stand out podcast.

I would love for you to do something amazing, which is go hit the little plus sign and subscribe or follow the podcast on whatever platform you are following it on. That way you get a chance to know when my next episode is going to drop. And then I also get we get to connect with you every single, or not, or I was gonna say every single week, but we're doing bi month, bi weekly episodes these days, so at least twice a month you're going to hear another fabulous episode from somebody who's out there not only living the life that they want, but they're building a business or a career that really lights them up.

So thank you again, Jill, for being here. And that's a wrap for another episode of the attract not stand out podcast. Remember, I believe in you. You're allowed to stand out. You're allowed to shine. You're allowed to be you. We'll see you next time. Bye everybody. Thank you.